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Andy Riga has put up a bunch of media about the new metro cars and cites questions and commentary from readers (first cite being @ant6n!).
TransportJames, Chris, Faiz Imam, and 6 others are discussing. Toggle Comments
I have to agree with what many people said… we need air conditioning on transit in this city. They continue to raise fares and honestly my transit experience has not increased in quality. Crowded stuffy buses are still the norm, litter in the metro has increased, visual pollution is at an all-time high (the screens… they enrage me! The STM ads, they’re too much and completely unnecessary!) escalators are still broken for weeks on end with not a workman in sight, OPUS has changed nothing except made bus queues slower… and when faced with the big demand of the ridership (air conditioning, PLEASE) the STM makes excuses. Jesus get some fresh blood into management over there.
It’s wierd how many people are asking for air conditioning. I wonder, once they have regenerative breaking, which would remove one of the largest sources of heat in the system, whether it would be possible to keep the whole metro system at fair temperatures.
Yes, the escalators…. How is it possible that it takes a full calendar year to fix the escalator (Plamondon metro)? It probably took less time to mine the minerals and smelt them. I think we’re gonna have to put webcams nearby because I just do not believe work is taking place…
On the issue of A/C in buses, last I heard the STM needs another year to “study” the issue. Today’s AC’s are highly efficient and nothing like they were 20-25 years ago. The bus drivers union has been asking for it for ages. But hey, never miss an opportunity to try and re-invent the wheel, I suppose… I went to see the model of the new metro car. It’s nice. I like the LED lighting and the doors are very wide. Time will tell if the new braking system keeps the heat level down.
I think the STM video does a great job explaining why A/C cannot work in our metro system, yet people still remain insistent.
The Metro is a closed system, which means every litre of air has to be mechanically pumped in our out. Other systems that have AC are NOT closed systems, simple as that.
Whats the point in having cool cars if all the stations are sweltering.
The only way to have AC in our system is to tear down and re-build almost all of the stations and greatly enhance the in-tunnel ventilation infrastructure at a cost of many billions.
Personally I think the current method works: the new cars produce 30% less heat, and they are gradually(but significantly) improving the ventilation systems. Put the rest of the money where it can really do some good.
BTW: The new cars don’t have localized fans that blow air only in front of the doors, they have 2 linear vents that go end to end, which makes them MUCH more comfortable for everyone.
Although I completely agree with the views of the Metro engineers regarding heat but I believe we should just buy the metro cars with AC so it pleases all these folks who want AC. Look, we’re spending all this money on new cars might as well spend a bit more for AC to make people happy and comfortable. Its not like it’s going to cost a billion more and if the stations feel hot we can turn off the AC. We have wasted money before on potentially useless things lets do it again and see if the engineers are right We waste lots of public money daily but at least this time the majority of users will be in agreement when we spend it.
@Faiz: The metro already contains many air conditioners – they’re attached to practically every office and ticket booth in the place. Also, if these engineers were worth their salt they would know there’s more than one way to dissipate heat – it doesn’t have to go into the air. Also, the metro is by no means a “closed system” I don’t think those words mean what you think they do.
@Tux: I’m curious, how can the heat not eventually go into the air?
I know exactly what a closed system means.
granted thermo-dynamically its not exactly a “closed system” but in the HVAC context it is.
The AC’s attached to the various booths are minuscule, i would guess that everyone of them combined would not be more than 5% as much as full AC’s in 300+ metro cars.
hypothetically, if you put AC units in the cars all the heat they would produce gets pumped out into the tunnels and stations. 99% of this heat is removed by the ventilation system( hence closed system) The ventilation infrastructure is not designed to exhaust that volume of hot air, as a result the stations and tunnels will simply get hotter, which has a secondary impact of making all those AC’s less efficient.
Almost every system in the world that has AC in the cars is partially outdoors, this makes it very easy to ventilate.
The only fully indoor metro system in the world with AC (to my knowledge) is Hong Kong and they only have it in the stations, which they accomplish by fully isolating the tunnels/cars from the station with Platform screen doors.
There are lots of engineers in Montreal, has the STM released their data and calculations regarding heating/cooling? Can you use Access To Information on the STM?
Faiz is exactly right.
If A/C was installed in the cars, the station platforms would be hotter. People would then start demanding that A/C be installed in the stations as well. The only way to do that would be to isolate the platforms with platform screen doors. We are talking about Mega$$ for all that.
Personally, I would rather see that money be invested in expanding the network instead.
People love to complain and point to the exceptional days when it is quite hot in the stations/metro. The reality is that most days the temperature is acceptable. Putting in A/C just for a few days of the year is a waste of money that could be used for something else.
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