Curzi sounds off on language issues
Ex-PQ MNA Pierre Curzi is making some noise about the “anglicization” of Montreal, asking for the extension of Bill 101 from daycare to CEGEP and wanting to forbid any instruction in English even at the university level, strengthen rules about signage, working language in business and so on.
He doesn’t mention doing anything about persuading francophones to stay in Montreal and have their families here, though.
Ian 05:50 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
Ultimately that’s the main reason for “anglicization”, statistically. I’m not sure why that well-known fact isn’t being addressed.
Raoul 06:59 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
diversionary tactics. I can think of at least two fresh reasons in the media.
1) Montreal’s unemployment rate is the worst in the province, probably the country.
2) Not content with just stealing smartphone, some poor soul was stabbed for his ahunstic.
Add to that crumbling infrastructure, streetgangs,graffiti, trash/litter everywhere, high taxes and costs.
I doubt english is montreal’s biggest problem right now.
If i had to study computers in french, i might as well leave the province. Most quebecois websites have all the style and panache of yahoo’s 1995 homepage.
Raoul 07:02 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
and i am french. So they would love to torture me by making me learn all the french computer terms. (even though computers and programming languages were mostly conceived and designed in english)
Clément 09:01 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
Let’s just make sure we have our facts straight: Pierre Curzi does not want to “forbid any instruction in English even at the university level”. That statement is false.
He wants to extend the provisions of bill 101 all the way to CEGEP level. This means English schools will continue to exist and teach in English to English students using English course material taught by English speaking teachers. In other words, if you attended high school in French, CEGEP will be in French and if you attended high school in English, you can attend CEGEP in English.
As far as the university level, he does not even want to extend bill 101 to that level, he only wants French universities to offer French programs.
It’s all in La Presse article, just before the statement where he says «qu’aucun droit de la communauté anglophone n’a été touché», which, based on the facts, remains true.
I usually disagree with a lot of Pierre Curzi’s opinions. I happen to disagree about extending bill 101 to CEGEP level. I think it’s a terrible idea.
But having said that, let’s at least disagree with what he actually said.
Ian 09:07 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
If you’ve got another link, I’d be happy to read it – the linked article seems pretty clear with the statement “La Loi 101 s’étendrait au cégep et au service de garde. Et le français serait aussi mieux protégé à l’université, propose M. Curzi. Sa nouvelle Charte interdirait l’enseignement en anglais dans les établissements collégiaux et universitaires, à l’exception des cours de langue. “…
Clément 09:24 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
@Ian:
Bill 101 has never prevented anglophones from attending English schools, did it? How would extending it to the CEGEP suddenly prevent anglophones from attending English schools?
As far as the last sentence in the article “Sa nouvelle Charte interdirait l’enseignement en anglais dans les établissements collégiaux et universitaires, à l’exception des cours de langue”, I believe it to be misquoted, as it only applies to French universities. Do you really think Pierre Curzi is suggesting that Dawson, John Abbot, McGill, Bishop and Concordia stop being English schools, seriously?
If you are looking for reading material, you can read the actual proposal that Pierre Curzi made here:
http://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/travaux-parlementaires/projets-loi/projet-loi-593-39-2.html
qatzelok 09:24 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
I find it silly when Anglos write about English as if they were defending a poor little threatened language that coexists peacefully with others. The history of the Anglosphere (and its patriarchal attitude towards the rest of the world’s cultures) have made it very safe from other languages. English doesn’t need protecting. It’s like a cancer that spreads and kills everything else in its path.
cheese 09:31 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
Raoul has it right, diversionary tactics. There are many things wrong with this city and this province, and this country, and this world, but most of the local leaders and media are either unable or unwilling to tackle any of that.
The language issue is easy to stir up and can distract from the real problems.
It does sound unlikley that Curzi plans to shut down McGill and Concordia but perhaps some people feel threatened by these institutions and would like them to go. Seems so small minded but also understandable on some levels.
@qatzelok: that last sentence toook all the credibility out of everything who wrote before it. I think someone posted the definition of troll here a while ago, did you read it?
Clément 09:32 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
@Ian
I also found a “synthèse” of Curzi’s proposal (6 pages, more user friendly that the official text) at http://www.pierrecurzi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/charte-fr-synthese.pdf
Pay attention to the following sections:
Section titled “Les droits de la minorité anglophone” on page 2.
Sub-section titled “8-Langue d’enseignement dans les établissements postsecondaires francophones” on page 5. Specifically, the following text:
“Dans les établissements francophones offrant l’enseignement collégial et
universitaire, l’enseignement de la matière propre aux programmes offerts se donne
uniquement en français. Les travaux, les examens, les mémoires et les thèses doivent
être rédigés en français. Toutefois l’enseignement d’une ou de plusieurs autres
langues est encouragé.”
Again, I’ve never been a fan of Pierre Curzi, but if we’re going to have a debate about something, we should be debating facts.
And btw, no one has ever been tortured for not complying with bill 101…
Steve Quilliam 09:38 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
Personnally I don’t think Montreal is suffering from ”anglicization” more than before. I think that there are more anglophones living in french part of town such as Plateau and Villeray, per example, while more francophones living in NDG or Downtown. Both are doing so because they are comfortable with it. I think we are simply connecting with each other more than ever because people are more and more bilingual on both side.
I understand and share some of Pierre Curzi’s feeling about the situation but i think he is hitting on the wrong nail. He should make sure there’s enough funding for the french culture to strive and that immigrants have easy access to intensive french courses (as well as anglos from the ROC) no matter where they settle.
qatzelok 09:42 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
Cheese, I wasn’t trolling. Currently, The Anglosphere is bombing three or four countries. This is how English spread all around the world: through military attacks and ethnic cleansing. That’s been its ‘Bill 101′ throughout history right to the present. So it’s mendacious to “defend” English with laws or kind words. Lying in the subtext is still lying.
C_Erb 10:05 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
qatzelok: I agree with you but let’s not forget that those who speak the French language have been guilty of many of the same crimes around the world for centuries. France has had it’s fair share of episodes of military intervention and ethnic cleansing and the French language has killed or weakened probably as many languages as English throughout the world (including within France itself).
Kate 10:15 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
OK folks, I was posting late and did not mean to imply that Curzi wants English to be banned from English-language schools, sorry. I don’t know what he thinks about English-language institutions but it did not seem that he wanted to change them, or not right away. He does want to ban English from places like HEC where it’s been creeping in (along with Spanish).
@qatzelok, since we are in North America and speaking a European language, let’s agree we’re all the descendants of evil imperialists and get that out of the way. C_Erb is right, and if you look at the Wikipedia’s list of languages by number you’ll find the top ones have mostly arrived there by evil means – Spanish, Portuguese, English, Russian, Mandarin.
My point about Curzi, returning to our moutons, is mostly that the means he’s suggesting will not fix the problem he’s supposed to be worried about, partly because Montreal never was the fully francophone utopia he seems to imply, and partly because he doesn’t know how to keep the majority of young French-speaking people from fleeing to Blainville the minute they feel broody. So the anglos get to be the scapegoat again, which gets old.
Jack 10:25 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
My problem with Curzi and so many others preaching the ” Anglicization” trope is based more on geography. Curzi was born and raised in Villeray, he now has a beautiful farm and orchard on the slopes of Mont St.Hilaire and from their sermonizes on the lost french fact in Montreal a fact that is simply not true. Like many others he has chosen not to live in Montreal and in sub text thinks somehow it is my responsibility as a bloke to francizise the new immigrant population moving in.There is a limit to my ability to deny who I am, despite what Lisee says in L’actualite.
Secondly when talking to friends who are French origin and catholic, they admit the thing that troubles them is when they hear English conversations in formerly exclusively French speaking neighborhoods like Villerary and Rosemount. I always say the same things walk around and check out the schools and churches in those neighborhoods, Centre Lajeunesse formerly Holy Family School,etc.etc. these places always had an English speaking minority. The difference is the people moving back thought the only ticket to full civic membership was speaking French, but now the goal posts are moving.
Kate 11:41 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
Nicely put, Jack. My dad grew up in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve in the 1930s and 40s, where there was enough of an anglo presence that there was an English-language Catholic church and school. He learned to speak French in the street but he went to school in English. And that’s an area most people now would consider completely francophone. (Mom grew up in the Point where French was not too present, so much that she managed to pick up a little Polish and Ukrainian instead – but that’s another story.)
It’s also true, there’s some irony in the likes of Curzi leaving the city then getting mad that you or I might find ourselves speaking English to a person who was not born here. It’s not like it’s a struggle with my conscience – if someone seems more comfortable in French I’ll speak French, but if they speak English to me I don’t feel it’s my duty to try to force them to speak French, which seems to be what that L’actualité survey thought I should feel.
mdblog 11:42 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
@qatzelok
Two can play at this game. Yes, English is not threatened in the global context, but that doesn’t mean that it is not threatened here in Quebec. Just take a look at what’s happening in Huntingdon where bilingual services are being threatened because a mere 44% of the population is Anglophone!
Below is a good quote that sums up where I’m coming from:
“All this rage by militants belies a hypocritical attitude whereby they believe that resistance to assimilation is the highest form of social responsibility when it pertains to French in Quebec and across Canada, but racist anti-socialism when it pertains to Anglos in Quebec.”
-Editor: No Dogs or Anglophones
Alex J. 14:34 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
Donc coup de baguette (de fonctionnaire) magique et le MBA en anglais ne fait plus partie du menu aux HEC?
Ian 14:45 on 2012/03/28 Permalink
@clément – thanks, I suspected the news article was more inflammatory than the legislation would be, that’s why I asked for a link in the first place.
@qatzelok – tell it to the Algerians, Moroccans, Vietnamese, etc. Imperialism is not a solely English phenomenon.
qatzelok 12:37 on 2012/03/29 Permalink
If the best you can do is “Everyone is an evil, murderous, ethnic-cleansing monster like the Anglosphere,” I think my point has been reinforced. Spin can’t replace the obvious. The Acadians spoke French. Were they murderous imperialists? What about Louis Riel and the Metis? Hey, what happened to all those cultures? Did they decline when they sent all their troops and tax money into Afghanistan?
Kate 13:50 on 2012/03/29 Permalink
I’m not clear on what you want to hear from me, or anyone else posting here. A language does not carry evil in its structure.
Why, if this matters to you, are you not restricting yourself to speaking and writing in Mohawk or Cree?
Kate 14:38 on 2012/03/29 Permalink
Anyway, it’s all talk, as the minister ain’t buying it.
qatzelok 23:16 on 2012/03/29 Permalink
“Why, if this matters to you, are you not restricting yourself to speaking and writing in Mohawk or Cree?”
Because I’m Acadian, and therefore, French or Mi ‘qmak are more appropriate. At one time in our history, the culturally sensitive New Englanders worried about having mixed race Catholics who spoke French living on “their continent.” So Acadians were Bill-101ed, anglo style, in 1755. Don’t you prefer laws to this kind of brutality?
Shouldn’t French retake its place as the most prominent language in Canada? Or should the results of all that Anglo brutality be allowed to stand, leaving Canada like it is today: a bland, English speaking branch plant serving foreign bankers’ resource needs? Allowing Canada to remain Anglo is a way of rewarding violence and racism.
Kate 01:22 on 2012/03/30 Permalink
I never know what to say when people go back to 1755 for their grievances.
French is no more “natural” on this continent than English is. They were both brought here by arrogant Europeans intent on imposing their way of life on a new territory and taking from it what they could get. Neither has the moral high ground.
You will never convince me that the English language is inherently evil, so you might as well not try.