09:27 on 2012/01/22 Reply  

• paul 10:46 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  As a resident, I fully applaud the efforts of Projet Montreal for giving the streets back to the people (pedestrians). I have noticed an increased cost in parking on the times I rarely use a car, but accept this as the cost of keeping our area pedestrian-oriented.

  Laurier is a much more pleasant street to visit since the traffic restrictions have been put in place – and I have made an effort to shop there more frequently.

  As far as a commercial decline, I can’t really speak for that, but weren’t there statistics recently that refuted this statement?

  I am tired of the media creating controversy where there doesn’t appear to be any. I suppose we will see next election, but I hope that Plateau residents vote en masse for a politician that actually has their best interests in mind.

• Robert J 10:56 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  I worked in various restaurants in the area for the last 5-6 years. I can say concretely that the clientèle is changing and will continue to change. St-Laurent between Sherbrooke and Pine, St-Denis, and select locations on Mont-Royal used to have a lot of suburban clients (similar to the clients you see at places on Crescent and Bishop). Those clients absolutely will go to Dix-30 or other more car-friendly locations to avoid driving in the Plateau. Those clients do bring in a lot of cash on weekends, and tend to spend more than residents in entertainment and retail (they don’t get out as much).

  So, for businesses like Radio Lounge or Med, there is a significant change is the level of business. Certain bar and retail outlets have closed and changed hands over the last few years and will continue to do so as a result of traffic calming (it really is easier to park in the Eaton Centre garage, shop there and go home if cars are how you get around). Rents will have to be lowered on St-Laurent in particular because businesses serving local clientele (fewer tourists and fewer suburbanites) have less cashflow. Property owners are reluctant to accept this reality (that the street will have to build a new reputation around local clients) and are at fault for many closures.

  So in brief, the character of the neighborhood is changing. I don’t think you can deny that driving and parking is more and more of a hassle in the Plateau, but I think the neighborhood can live without that particular clientele. I know the kind of places I like in the Plateau are the ones without 450 clients and tourists.

• JaneyB 10:59 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  It was remarkably bad last summer – to the point that my street (Brébeuf) was basically impossible to reach from the northwest. It would frequently take close to 30 minutes of driving around to find a way that was not blocked once I reached Parc and Van Horne. Some of this was due to travaux (no doubt back again next summer since repairs only last a year or two in Montreal); some was due to ‘traffic calming’ eg: unannounced dead ends; and some was due to ignorance eg: blocking most south turns while going east on St. Joseph so that Papineau was the only option…but Papineau is normally blocked with all the traffic trying to cross the bridge.
  The car-hostile policy may be great for 25 yo childless cyclists who rarely leave the neighbourhood but a huge number of Plateau-residents have cars. People with kids have cars (because herding children on public transit or trying to lift their poussettes through the metro system is hard for most women). I favour car-sharing and don’t drive a lot but Project Montreal’s policies mean when I drive I spend more time and carbon than I did in Cote-des-neiges, mostly avoiding detours and looking for parking. The $160 vignette cost is also very irritating.

• Dave M 11:01 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  The construction on Parc made the traffic hell in between about Parc and St. Laurent in front of my apartment on Mont Royal all day for the entire summer. I’m not sure what effect it had further west where the commercial stretches are, but as soon as the construction was finished, the traffic cleared right back up on this part of it. So from my point of view (which isn’t in the part of the Plateau that had traffic calming measures implemented, but is part of the Plateau borough), anyone claiming it’s caused by Projet Montréal’s traffic calming measures is either full of shit, or hasn’t done their research.

  But I also think that, even if the traffic calming measures did lower business, any business that can only survive to the detriment of the quality of life of local citizens probably deserves to go bankrupt, anyways. If you’re running the kind of business that you’re expecting people to drive to, run it in the suburbs where land is cheap and you can give your customers a big parking lot.

• Robert J 11:14 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  My belief is that concrete transit alternatives need to be there to accomodate former drivers. The only fast crosstown busses from the east end (where many families live) are on Sherbrooke and St Joseph (Rachel’s on a 30-40 min schedule, Mt-Royal is backed up in traffic. So for all the people who live between the green line and the blue line those are the only practical options from the east end. From the west, the mountain gets in the way, so you have the 24 and the 51 (and to some degree the Pine ave. bus).

  Even those busses are slow and stop often (and if you live farther east than Papineau you have to change busses). Some kind of tram or rapid bus (not only on Park, but also and more importantly on on St-Joseph and Masson, to the east, as Projet suggested) would really help folks get to specific destinations.

  If I want to get to the corner of Iberville and Mt-Royal, a car or taxi is much more comfortable than the bus, for those who don’t bike. Especially in the winter.

• Ian 11:16 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  I have 2 kids, no car, and still rent. Not everyone with kids thinks driving is a “necessity”, even older parents who could easily afford a car like myself but simply don’t want one because they’re expensive, and hey, I live in the Plateau, everything I need is within walking distance except when I’m picking up my eldest from school or I’m commuting to work. That aside, Parc / Saint-Joseph/ Laurier west was a total mess this summer & the area was still very slow through the early winter with roadwork. I don’t drive, but even taking the bus was at least double the normal time, whether travelling north/south or east/west as both directions were being repaired at the same time. Parking was pretty much non-existent any time friends with cars visited, since so much of the street parking was blocked off for construction. A lot of businesses closed but this area has a ton of turnover so I’m hesitant to point the finger at any one cause, though I’m sure all the roadwork didn’t help… but JdeM doesn’t give a crap about the Plateau west of Saint-Denis so I suppose the point is moot.

• Robert J 11:22 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  I don’t disagree, Ian, but most of the Plateau is east of St-Denis, and that’s also where the highest concentration of residential Montreal is. Also, People who live in Rosemont and Hochelaga (and farther east) also want to get to the east of the Plateau to go out and shop (the east of the Plateau has high quality, high variety businesses that have traditionally served that francophone clientele). So its normal that the Journal can create a stir, and that some people other than 450 are frustrated.

  The western Plateau is where all the heavy transit infrastructure is located (orange line and 80 bus), so if you live there, you truly have no reason to complain.

• Ian 11:30 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  As fair as the proportion of residents, sure, but as far as the proportion of business goes, it’s kind of silly to not consider Mile End, Saint Laurent, and all the business on smaller side streets. And while we do indeed get served well by the metro (even though it’s east of Saint Denis) and high frequency bus routes, the traffic situation this summer affected everyone, not just car drivers, and parking was sparse at best for all that western Plateau business JdeM is apparently unconcerned with. Of course as you note JdeM serves the francophone community so there’s less interest in what the decadent land of hipsters and immigrants west of “the highest concentration of residential Montreal”. And yeah,a dmittely the east is underserved by the STM but then again there’s a reason my rent is double what it would be in HoMa.

• Robert J 11:35 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  My point is just that traffic calming is good and necessary to keep the Plateau a residential area, but that without adequate transit alternatives, the less wealthy and more poorly served areas will suffer most. I know people who choose to live in Rosemont because rents are cheap enough that they can afford a car. Give those people better transit alternatives and the problem’s solved.

• Roberto Vital 12:18 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  I left the Plateau not too long ago. I do have a car, but used it minimally. You know, drop my teenagers at the arena with their massive equipment, pick-up the ten bags of grocery etc. I’d go to work by bus. High taxes and this let’s-demonize-car-owners philosophy chased me out of there. I now live downtown. So I kind of agree with professor Nantel’s views. Too bad the author of this blogue seems to imply the Journal did a hatchet job. I find it refreshing to hear a different perspective than the one fed to us by the Ferrandez clique.
  But I fully agree with the Journal article. The mayor has spent so much energy claiming that the Plateau only belongs to its residents that I’m not surprised businesses are not happy with Ferrandez. Then it suddenly struck me: I no longer go to all my favorite stores on Mont-Royal and Laurier, because I can’t put-up with silly detours and parking hell. So yes, every weekend, I hit the bridge and do all my shopping in the 450.

• Ralph 13:13 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  People downtown need to stop bitching about traffic as if they were living in the suburbs, they are not. Not to mention borough mayors that bitch about reduce parking revenues when they do everything in their power to keep cars from passing through their neighbourhood.

• Jack 13:25 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  Roberto are you kidding? High taxes drove you downtown, for goodness sake continue to “hit” that bridge. Janey b ,I have raised two kids who go to piano lessons , take karate and have played soccer all without a car and you know what they seem fine.Quebecor and the JdeM are in the business of vilifying the Plateau and increasingly Montreal. They market to French-origin 450 ,it is a definite marketing strategy.Wake up!

• Steph 14:39 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  New traffic measures haven’t affected my ability to drive around the Plateau. Constriction, on the other hand, is what’s been annoying. St-Laurent seemed torn up for months on end these last few years, has that finally ended? I found it amusing that they’d quickly re-pave it for every ‘important international weekend event’. I expect Parc to be a construction zone for at least another summer.
  With water-mains leaking and bursting throughout the city, people insist on infrastructure work, yet they complain when their streets are torn up to do it. sounds about right.

• Snowpea 15:07 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  As a resident of NDG who lives far from the metro stations, I have to say I don’t want to visit the Plateau and Mile End if I can help it because I usually get around town by car, esp. when I want to bring back my purchases, and those neighborhoods have become too frustrating to negotiate.

  The Plateau traffic calming has indeed worked: I don’t go very often anymore despite the fact that there are many businesses, shops and restaurants I would like to frequent. It’s just too much of a hassle.

• Mathieu 15:18 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  I don’t own a car and live in Outremont. During the summer, I use a bike (mostly bixi) and transit. Had the borough not changed Laurier E., I would never have been to that part of town. The simple fact that now part of a network of bike path makes me travel by that road all the time. Parc Laurier became a meeting point for all our friends who live all around the city. We ate at the restaurants there, bought our food and beer there. We wouldn’t have done that if it weren’t for bike paths; we would have settled for a place downtown accessible by metro.

  And that’s what we do during the winter as none bike during the cold season: we meet in place where the metro is. That is downtown, to be fair to all. So when I hear people say cars are going out, I never hear about who might go to that place now.

  Besides, hasn’t anyone been aware of how Mont-Royal past Papineau and Papineau north of Mont-Royal are thriving? New restaurants and shops everywhere it seems.

• Alex L 15:24 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  Le Journal de Montréal est détenu par Quebecor Média. Pas de doute qu’ils continueront de trouver des bibittes sur le plateau et à Montréal jusqu’au jour où leurs électeurs voteront conservateur, et même encore. On peut trouver des gens qui dépriment et dont les affaires vont mal quand bien même on se trouverait dans la ville la plus prospère du monde, des reportages du genre ne cherchent qu’une chose, brasser de la marde et faire réagir les gens sur un sujet. Quand on n’a pas de potins, pour un journal à sensations, c’est la catastrophe, alors on invente des problèmes.

  Pour contredire certains, je suis un récent arrivant sur le plateau, y ai bougé car les choses y bougent, justement, et suis entièrement d’accord avec les gestes de l’actuelle administration.

• Kate 18:24 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  Interesting range of responses. Thank you all very much.

• William 19:01 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  I drove my car from my home in the Mile End to avenue Mont-Royal to do some shopping yesterday. I found a park within two blocks of the shops I wanted to visit, and the hour of parking was by far the cheapest part of the outlay. Really, I am so sick of hearing about this non-existent issue.

  Here is a more interesting question: we all know what the borough is doing with a big stick about transport in the Plateau, but what are the carrot initiatives?

• Chris 20:42 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  Motorists are in denial about the true cause of traffic, congestion, and lack of parking: other motorists! As the saying goes: “you’re not stuck in traffic, you _are_ traffic”.

• Jack 21:09 on 2012/01/22 Permalink

  Snowpea, move closer to Vendome, Villa Maria, or Snowdon. Dump your car and save $7,000 to $10,000 a year. Travel, live a little you’ll love it.

• Gen 06:43 on 2012/01/23 Permalink

  We have two kids and a car that we only rarely use. I take my kids to daycare by foot or on the bus: the 80 is excellent.

  I love the traffic calming policies: We now feel safe crossing our street. Last summer was horrible for cars but also pedestrians, and in our area that was because of the work on Parc, the shutdown of Saint-Urbain (well, that was actually fun for pedestrians), and the work on Saint-Jospeph, not the traffic calming–and that was Tremblay’s area, not Ferrandez’s.

  I am also sick of hearing about this issue, and the merchants can always blame their problems on Ferrandez, but I’d like to see some proof. The economy is not what it used to be. Their evidence for traffic calming being the issue is very weak as far as I can see, and they only antagonize the locals with this propaganda. If I know a merchant is anti-Projet Montréal, I don’t shop there.

• walkerp 09:17 on 2012/01/23 Permalink

  A little late to reply to what turned into a long and interesting discussion. I just wanted to add that I know a long-time vendor on Mont-Royal and asked him about this question. He said that business has declined, but that that decline was already going on long before the traffic-calming policies. The biggest factor is that the suburban towns that used to drive traffic to the Plateau have been developing their own business centers. Laval has a huge shopping area, Longeuil has revitalized its own downtown and so on. Also, getting on and off the island has gotten so much more difficult over the years. He said that the traffic-calming didn’t help, but that it was a very minor factor in the slow sales on the Plateau.

  The media is blowing this out of proportion because it’s an easy, hot-button issue that gets readers riled up.

  What is the alternative? To open up the inner city to be a totally pro-car zone? Reduce parking costs? Then you would just have so much traffic that parking and driving would still be hell, possibly worse.

• James 09:39 on 2012/01/23 Permalink

  I don’t think it’s insignificant that driving all over Montreal has recently become much more hellish, not for traffic calming reasons. I’ve made the mistake of driving to the plateau from NDG a couple of times and it took almost as long as taking the metro, and was 100 times more frustrating. If every major artery is either traffic ridden, or dangerous, or under construction, I would expect this would keep the 450 crowd from coming in as well.

  I say this not to advocate for more/better driving infrastructure but to say that it’s all going downhill anyways and the suburbs people love their big parking lots, so we shouldn’t try and compete on that level anyways. Count me in those who think that if this madness needs to continue to make business owners happy, then we need to reevaluate our priorities. I think blindly accepting what business owners want as The Way is potentially not good for us nor them.

• James 09:44 on 2012/01/23 Permalink

  As an aside, I am hearing more and more stories of car owners who threaten daycares/libraries/shopowners with losing their business if they have to cross a street by foot (ie: no parking right out front in a lot). I’m not sure we want to accommodate these people in our neighborhoods.

• ant6n 18:39 on 2012/01/23 Permalink

  @James
  That is kind of ironic – drivers complain about traffic calming measures that would make it easier for pedestrians to get around and cross streets, for example. On the other hand they want to be accomodated because they think it’s too scary to cross streets themselves.

  Seems to be fairly obvious what the problem is.

• Ed 20:42 on 2012/08/22 Permalink

  My biggest complaint is that they no longer plow the streets in the winter unless there is a huge snowstorm. Instead we get ice accumulating into mounts so tall that about 20% of legitimate parking spots become unusable. What is the point of paying for a vignette if there are no spots left?

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