Updates from July, 2017 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

  • Kate 21:22 on 2017/07/16 Permalink | Reply  

    This is on Facebook but should be open: Mathieu Séguin analyzes why the intersection of Pie-IX and Beaubien is so hazardous to pedestrians.

  • Kate 20:36 on 2017/07/16 Permalink | Reply  

    A very local referendum has kiboshed the plan for a Muslim cemetery in St-Apollinaire. The proposal lost 19 to 16.

    A writer for Ricochet claims that the ultra right, anti-Muslim group La Meute got involved in the business and put pressure on people in the tiny town. Update: Le Devoir has followed that same thread.

    • Ian 21:46 on 2017/07/16 Permalink

      I know that La Meute is hardly subtle in what they stand for, but it’s worth noting that a group of U-boats in the German navy in WWII were called a wolf pack.

      That said, there’s something to be said for non-denominational cemeteries. It seems like a very weird convention. In the ROC it’s not uncommon to have different areas within the same cemetery devoted to specific groups not unlike how in cimetière Mont-Royal there is the children’s section, and various ethnic sections.

    • rue david 22:12 on 2017/07/16 Permalink

      Another example of how dumb allowing these referenda are, though in this case I’ll admit it’s not clear the city officials would have approved it.

    • Kate 22:25 on 2017/07/16 Permalink

      I don’t know whether Notre-Dame-des-Neiges keeps up the premise that it’s only for Roman Catholics, but it used to do. That’s why it includes a military cemetery, with half on the NDN side and half on the Mount Royal side, with the fence going between them, and why each cemetery has, for example, an identical copy of a tall pillar dedicated to firefighters. It used to be a big deal for Catholics to be buried in consecrated ground, or in fact to be denied that privilege (see the Guibord case).

      Muslims have different death customs from most post-Christians and pseudo-Catholics. Their tradition is to bury the dead very quickly, using only a shroud, and there are more details here.

      So I don’t tend to feel that it’s divisive to have separate cemeteries, or separate cemetery divisions, for different kinds of believers, because they have different traditions.

      Most of us don’t have a problem with separate Jewish cemeteries (there are several around town). This is no different.

    • Chris 23:16 on 2017/07/16 Permalink

      Wow, Godwin in the first sentence! :)

    • Kate 23:32 on 2017/07/16 Permalink

      That’s stretching Godwin till it snaps, Chris.

    • John B 07:52 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      rue david: City council had already approved it, and the mayor is on record as saying he wants the Muslim cemetery to go ahead.

    • Bill Binns 08:52 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      It’s interesting to see the backers of this cemetery framing the the lack of accommodation to those who are intolerant of being buried near those of other religions as intolerance. Intolerance of our intolerance = intolerance? Also, they seem to be trying to make this sound like no Muslim cemeteries will be allowed in Quebec. This was purely a decision about this particular piece of land which was not zoned for a cemetery in the first place. Only people who own land directly adjoining the proposed site were allowed to vote (hence the low number of votes). Maybe these folks didn’t want to live directly next door to any sort of cemetery?

      This is why we have zoning right? So when you buy a home you can be reasonably sure someone won’t throw up a rendering plant next door two years after you move in?

    • Chris 10:17 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      Kate, how so? The first sentence of the comment thread went straight to comparing others to Nazis. I know you love me quoting the OED :), but “The theory that as an online discussion progresses, it becomes inevitable that someone or something will eventually be compared to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis, regardless of the original topic.”

    • Ian 11:06 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      That may be what the OED says, but the actual “law” specifically references fallacious comparisons to Hitler… in any case my point is not fallacious, it is a literal fact. It is an unfortunate choice of names for the racist club, if their intent is not to be perceived as such.

    • ste.ph 11:24 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      Cemeteries make great neighbors. These guys are gonna miss out.

    • Bill Binns 11:31 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      @ste.ph – I tend to agree. I have always liked cemeteries and would not mind living next to one myself. Not everyone feels that way though. I have friends who live in the Hillpark building in Cote des Neiges. After a couple of years of living in an apartment with a view that is dominated by a huge cemetery, they found it depressing and moved to the other side of the building.

      I also wonder what having a cemetery next door does to property values.

    • Blork 11:45 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      I’d love to live next to a cemetery, because at least the neighbours would be quiet.

    • ant6n 16:30 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      But it may not be very lively.

    • Douglas 18:37 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      Cemeteries look nice during the day.

      At night they scare the hell out of me.

    • Chris 19:10 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      Ian, that may be what the wikipedia says, but follow its references to the 1995 message from Mike Godwin:


      “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”

      Also your own wiki citation contracts you on fallaciousness: “Godwin’s law does not claim to articulate a fallacy.”

    • Kate 19:54 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      Chris, the intent of Godwin is that sooner or later in online argument somebody’s position will be likened to the Nazis. Simply referring to a historical fact as Ian did is not the kind of thing intended by the law.

    • Viviane 20:13 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      Montreal’s Muslims worked something out with Magnus Poirier in Laval. Why aren’t Quebec City’s Muslims happy with Lepine Cloutier/Athos’ proposal in Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures?

    • Blork 21:54 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      There needs to be a Godwin’s Law corollary, along the lines that every online argument has a fringe of people waiting to be the first to call “Godwin’s Law.” (Because seriously, I see that.)

    • Kate 07:22 on 2017/07/18 Permalink

      Viviane, I don’t know, but it’s not unreasonable to want more than one burial place. It may be a growing demand, or maybe there are differences depending on their nationalities or subdivisions of Islam. I haven’t read this anywhere – just guessing.

    • Chris 09:01 on 2017/07/18 Permalink

      Kate, first, I never disputed the historical fact of what a group of U-boats were called (didn’t check either). But he didn’t just “refer to a historical fact”, he made a parallel between two groups of people. Mike Godwin himself said “I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust”. i.e. that the ramblings of racist trolls just doesn’t compare to the mass murder of millions. But whatever, this horse is beat.

      Blork, I think the closest is ‘Quirk’s Exception’.

    • Ian 09:21 on 2017/07/18 Permalink

      If some racist group picks a name that was already used by the Nazis, pointing that out isn’t the same thing as a glib comparison to the holocaust. You’re clutching at straws here to get to push the OMG GODWIN button first.

  • Kate 16:31 on 2017/07/16 Permalink | Reply  

    Quebec’s Crown prosecutor now says the Jordan ruling shouldn’t have applied in the case against Sivaloganathan Thanabalasingham because some of the delay was due to the defendant dragging his own heels. But Thanabalasingham has left Canada and, since we don’t have an extradition treaty with Sri Lanka, good luck getting him back.

    • rue david 16:41 on 2017/07/16 Permalink


    • Bill Binns 08:55 on 2017/07/17 Permalink

      Meh. I would rather be in a Quebec prison for the typically short murder’s stay than be sentenced to life in Sri Lanka. This guy may eventually regret not just fessing up.

    • Kate 07:25 on 2017/07/18 Permalink

      Bill Binns, I don’t think he’ll be facing charges in Sri Lanka. He did come here as a refugee but things may have changed sufficiently in that country for him to go home without immediate danger. A man like that is likely to find himself in trouble again, though.

  • Kate 10:13 on 2017/07/16 Permalink | Reply  

    The Journal says the underwater phase of building the new Champlain is complete, so the visible structure will soon become more apparent to observers.

  • Kate 08:54 on 2017/07/16 Permalink | Reply  

    A man was shot dead around 1 a.m. Sunday outside a reception hall in St-Léonard, after a brawl. CTV’s version puts the incident in St-Laurent but that’s not where Provencher Boulevard is. TVA link plays raw video.

    (Update: Since I first posted this, the CTV item has been corrected to St-Léonard.)

    Count is 13 homicides so far this year by TVA reckoning, 11 by CTV’s.

    Continuing the police blotter, a man was shot multiple times in Côte-des-Neiges early Sunday and is in critical condition. TVA link plays brief video report.

    Brief CP update from Radio-Canada says the victim is out of danger, also that he’s known to police.

    And a man was stabbed on Ste-Catherine near Atwater on Saturday night. More raw video from TVA.

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