The redevelopment of the old Outremont railyard sounds promising, with the city hoping to impose a more varied urban pattern than the endless condo developments that have cropped up as infill for years. In fact, 50% of the space should be given over to businesses that create jobs, and efforts will be made to open up the area to the surrounding streets.
I’m a little puzzled by this description of the area: “ce quadrilatère de 1 km2, essentiellement bordé par le boulevard Saint-Laurent et la rue Hutchison, au nord du boulevard Rosemont.” There is no such thing. Rosemont doesn’t exist west of Saint-Laurent, and the area I think he’s thinking of, which is north of Van Horne in that area, is already occupied by a massive Home Depot and its parking lot. I think he must mean an area further west, which is more triangular in shape. The Gazette’s for once a little clearer about the location being talked about, although describing it as “the one-kilometre-square territory surrounding the intersection of Parc and Jean Talon Aves.” is not too precise either. Metro posts a map but you can’t zoom into it.
Also it boggles my mind a little that it’s going to cost a billion dollars. But infrastructure doesn’t come cheap.
The Gazette item has a notice at the end about public consultation coming up.
Philip 01:26 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
I was selected to be part of the group testing them out a few months ago, but wasn’t in the country at the time and didn’t get to try it. I guess the tests were successful enough, though.
Stefan 03:46 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
in vienna, this is implemented somehow in that sense. you can buy public transport tickets from your phone by sending a text. it is invoiced by the network operator.
i guess carrying around an extra networked device does not make much sense, essentially with the proliferation of smartphones. also, in austria you can buy train tickets with your smartphone and show the qr code. smartphones are also getting near field communication (nfc), similar as to opus cards.
Matt 06:03 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
The Opus card is a bit of a mess. It’d be fun to have the option to pay for fares with a contactless credit card. You know, just in case you forgot your pass or don’t have one. And let’s say you use it several times a day or week, the STM would bill you at the end of the month, charging you the cheapest compatible fare.
david m 06:49 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
san francisco does this with the opus equivalent, a dongle seems nuts. stm seems to have invested in the wrong system
Frédéric 07:42 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
In the pilot tests, you could not use a Mac with the charger. Let’s hope they changed their requirements.
Adam Hooper 07:50 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
I wrote about this for OpenFile. As I understand it, the only way to implement a dongle-free system would be to inform every card reader in the city of your purchase. However, they aren’t all connected to the Internet regularly enough, and even if they were, their memory is too small to handle it.
If I recall correctly, London has solved both problems. But the OPUS card is province-wide, meaning it would be more difficult (read expensive) in Quebec.
Mal 08:34 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
Auckland, New Zealand has an online system, although they’re overhauling it.
Marc 09:48 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
@ Frédéric: I should hope so. Any competent software engineer should know the golden rule: code once, run anywhere.
Tux 09:49 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
I can’t wait to get my hands on one of those dongles.
Dave M 09:53 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
Matt, that’s effectively how London’s Oyster card works. You put money on it, and when you use it it takes off the price of a ticket. If you’ve used it enough that it goes over the price of a day pass, it caps it at the price of a day pass. I’m not sure if it caps the number of day passes at the price of a monthly pass or not, but I’ve always found that system makes a lot of sense.
Ant6n 10:10 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
I tried it when i was still a student, but it could only charge regular monthly passes and single tickets. I wonder whether it still works now…
Nick D 10:52 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
Incredible that they actually want people to buy a piece of hardware! Don’t they know that other cities exist? London’s Oyster is the reference (https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do)
Kate 11:24 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
I’m wondering whether the availability of the dongle will lead to reverse-engineering and counterfeit Opus chips. (In fact, to be honest, I’m a little let down that no local hacker has done this already, although it’s not like I want the STM to be defrauded. It just seems a little lacking in débrouillardise.)
Kevin 11:29 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
@Nick D
Communicating with transit organizations in those cities would require (key word there) someone who works for the STM having sufficient knowledge of English, and the STM says that’s not allowed save for certain employees who deal with tourists in certain geographically constrained areas.
Frédéric 11:46 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
@ Marc This should be true and easy with high level languages (e.g Java), yet interfacing with devices is usually more complicated. Still, Java was also part of requirements for the pilot, but maybe only for user interfaces.
Given the pilot took place in October and did require Windows, I highly doubt Mac will be supported now.
John B 12:04 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
From what I understand your fare info is stored on the chip on your card, not in some central database, this is why you need the dongle. However, I’ve heard that it *would* be possible to buy your pass online, then swipe your card at a machine in the metro which would “activate” your fare, (I’m guessing by putting the fare info into your chip), but I think this is what Adam referrs to when he says that we’d have to connect every card reader in the city to the internet, (however, I’ve heard that London has something like this working).
A middle ground would be to have some other machines in stations where you can’t buy passes, but you can swipe to activate passes. Of course this means another complication and another whole set of hardware.
As an aside, when I was riding the AMT regularly a couple of years ago, there were machines to buy your pass at and machines to validate your pass at, (for 10-ride tickets or whatever), but you still had to validate your monthly pass at the validation machine at least once per month… so maybe some of those validation machines could make their way into STM stations?
Either way, Opus hasn’t lived up to its promise. Why can’t I buy a 30-day pass mid-month? That was possible in NYC 15 years ago, at least!
Andrew 12:16 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
I subscribe to the Opus a l’annee program and I haven’t had to touch an Opus machine in more than a year. My credit card gets billed once a month, my pass just keeps working.
I have no idea why this system works for subscribers but can’t be used for tickets.
Bert 18:55 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
Dave, the drawback of the Tube system is that you must also swipe OUT also, to know what zone(s) is to be charged. I can only image the traffic jams at McGill, Peel, Guy, Momo, etc. at rush hour.
Kate 19:26 on 2013/01/18 Permalink
If they can manage in London, with three to four times our population…
SN86 14:45 on 2013/01/19 Permalink
Is there a real need for home re-chargers? The STM has few fare types (tickets, weekly, monthly) and regular users only buy monthly passes. Presumably if you use public transit often, you pass by the fare vending machines several times a day so I don’t see what’s so hard about stopping by once a month. And if lines are an issue, you can add your monthly pass on the evening of the 1st of the month since the old pass works on the 1st. And if you use tickets, buy 30 at a time, they don’t expire.
As for hacks, I don’t think anyone’s going to be announcing it. Everytime I’ve discovered something advantagous $$, I’ve kept it quiet.
Ant6n 17:17 on 2013/01/19 Permalink
@sn86
What if you don’t pass through any metro station when commuting. It’s not like you can purchase a monthly pass a month ahead of time.
SN86 18:25 on 2013/01/19 Permalink
Many depanneurs and drug stores have OPUS recharging machines and they’re located all over the island. http://stm.info/English/tarification/a-pointsdevente.htm
I always wonder why there are lines at some downtown stations with pharmacies right next to the station to buy fares. Also they take cash, something the vending machines have trouble with. Spitting out all your cash (in coins) just shy of the total.