If the worst that happened to the student protesters Thursday is the pissy dissing of a has-been racing car driver then they’re doing OK.
Updates from June, 2012 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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La Presse has a series of photos of the demos around the opening of the Grand Prix. Also pix of the nude to semi-nude demo from Radio-Canada. NSFW possibly.
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Daniel Cohn-Bendit speaks up on the Quebec tuition issue and how the situation of students now differs from his struggle in 1968.
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Five people were arrested Thursday in connection with student strike actions, mostly vandalism, but not the metro smoke bomb affair, according to Radio-Canada.
Thursday, a demo gathered near the Grand Prix opening cocktail – an event costing $1000 a head – and was swiftly declared illegal. Eighteen arrests were made as police kept demonstrators well away from the venue.
As I post, there are indications on Twitter manifencours of a nude protest manifnue and liberal pepper spraying downtown. NSFW photo.
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TiGuy
Petit détail : le prix de 1 000 $ par tête de pipe est à l’appui de l’hôpital Sacré-Coeur. Ce fut une soirée bénéfice. Je me demande quel est l’apport de tous et chacun des manifestants à nos institutions telles nos hôpitaux et nos écoles. Probablement zéro pour beaucoup d’entre eux s’ils ne travaillent pas.
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I’m posting this webcam shot of Nuit Blanche sur Tableau Noir on Mont-Royal from a different neighbourhood, via ipod.
I love technology.
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The Chinese consulate has put up a page with bank details for anyone wanting to contribute to Lin Jun’s family’s expenses coming here and repatriating his body.
(Wouldn’t a Paypal button get them more donations?)
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Jean-Pierre Gilker.
Insert a paypall button to get money. It’s easy and fast.
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Kate
I would think so, but that’s not my page.
The one thing about doing it like that through bank transfer is that it’s going to be 100% verifiable. On the other hand, it’ll stop people who might have donated $10 or $20 on the spur of the moment.
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Mathieu
Most banks allow for Interac transfers from your bank account. It’s fast and easy.
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Christian
PayPal charges fees for donations too. It’s 2.9% plus $0.30 per transaction if you are not a recognized non-profit organization (501c3 org. in US).
Even so it might be worth it. -
Kate
True enough. Anyway, look up top – Concordia has made a page making it easier to donate either to Lin Jun’s family or to a fund being created in his name to help Chinese students.
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Lavigne
Je suis d accord avec l idée d aider la famille mais tant qu à jun lin, je considère qu il est trop tôt pour l honorer…nous devons d abord savoir quelle genre de gars qu il était, homosexuel et quoi d autre…dans la drogue? Fréquentations de mauvaises personnes? Lui est-il arrivé ce qu il aurait voulu qu il arrive à Magnotta? Non, il ne faut pas par précautions, honorer ce gars tant qu on sait pas…car si les autres jeunes l aime comme un idolle…sans savoir dans quelle genre de vie il menait…c est no good…too fast!!!
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Sylvia M Rivès
Lavigne….vraiment vous gagnez le trophee des imbeciles…..Premierement cet endroit est pour contribuer pour la famille. Votre commentaire supplementaire est déplacé, manque tellement de jugement…..Lavigne…. vraiment cette fois ci vous auriez du vous la fermer.Si quelqu un peut faire enlver le message de cet individu, j aurais tellement honte qu un membre de sa famille, qu un ami voit ca……….. Misere que vous manqué de jugement.!!
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Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois writes in Le Monde about Jean Charest’s worn-out government.
In the same issue, Jean Charest puts up a brief but not very cogent defence of his government’s choices.
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On Coolopolis, Kristian turns up a number of interesting Montreal riots less often talked about than the well-known Richard riots or more recent actions, but concludes that if we were all property-owners our feelings would change and we’d settle down and stop agitating.
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qatzelok
@ Kristian: “We need to find a way to get more Montrealers owning their own property because renting is a form of slavery.”
So the only way to avoid the “slavery” of renting (which allows you to riot or move whenever you want) is to get people to sign $200,000 mortgages with banks? I’m not sure what freedom means in this sense.
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Kate
And pay taxes and fees indefinitely, even if your mortgage is paid off. Either way you have to pay for your shelter. I guess what Kristian means is that if you feel this money is invested in some way, you behave more conservatively from fear of risking your investment. There may be something in that, psychologically.
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Bill Binns
Quebec is a renter’s paradise, I doubt I will ever buy property here.
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Martin
This is an old trope. I read that line in many many political discourses, some dating as far back as the 1920s. Engels also wrote about that in the 1850s. But it does not withstand a fact-based study that J.I. Gilderbloom did in his book on poverty and housing (Invisible City). It does not seem that property owners are more conservative than renters (at least today), but one thing stands out in Gilderbloom’s research, they are more politically active than renters. I also read a book about Boston that found more or less similar results in the gentrification process: the gentrifiers are somewhat progressive (provided they can march with their dogs!) but they tend to be very active in order to control who comes in their hood, while you rarely that kind of activism on the renters’ side.
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William
If you’re renting as a way of avoiding property tax, property maintenance expenses and other fees, you’re only fooling yourself. You don’t think those costs are built into your rent? Sheesh. HELLO?!
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steph
Does Kristian still own the big apartment block in Verdun, corner Verdun and De l’Église? source http://tinyurl.com/7aqytmf . pic of building http://tinyurl.com/8yt9xkb
@ william: Recent studies have shown that due to the high housing prices, depending on the location, renting can be the more economic choice. Many locations in Montreal currently have real estate over-valued and qualify for the criteria. Some of this is also due to La Regie restricting how much landlords can increase your rent.
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Kate
@William, I was just pointing out that even buying outright is no way to avoid the “slavery” Kristian mentions. (I’m renting because it’s what I can afford to do, not because I’m stupid.)
@steph I have no idea what Kristian owns. I do know he’s a landlord, he makes no secret of that.
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Bill Binns
If those taxes and fees are built into my rent than I must be getting an even better deal than I thought. We looked. I can’t buy anything downtown half as nice as my current apartment without tripling my monthly expenses. Even that would mean going from a doorman building with an indoor pool and parking to some nasty 3 1/2 up a flight of stairs. Of course I could always buy one in one of those condo complexes built in a Wal-Mart parking lot in Laval but I’d rather be dead.
My lease is pretty much guaranteed not to go up more than $30-$40 a year. Who knows what could happen to property taxes in this town? We currently have people marching in the streets demanding more goverment handouts. That money has to come from somewhere.
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William
Yes, renting *can* be an economic choice if you are lucky enough to pick up a unit that has been rent-controlled for years and carefully handed down between generations of friends. For most families though, it’s a poverty trap.
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Kate
Maybe that’s it. I’m not a family.
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Jack
I am a landlord , and hate it. Mostly the word landlord I always feel as if I am in a Dickens novel denying another a bowl of gruel.I bought 11 years ago and have seen the market value of my triplex increase astronomically, due to the market price my fixed costs i.e. property taxes,school taxes,insurance costs have risen along with the market.I just got two estimates to redo my front balcony and 16 stairs the cost between $8,000-$9,000, these prices have also risen significantly.The one thing that has not is my rents. My upstairs tenant and I negotiated his increase by using the Regies new Calcul 2012.The first thing they ask me if I live in the building ( as 70% of landlords do) was to calculate the MARKET price of my unit. I asked my tenant why the calculation includes my market price when he pays about half of what the market price is, he smiled.
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paul
@ Jack…it kind of sounds like the student situation in the province ;-)
I can empathize…it certainly isn’t profitable to be a landlord here unless you are unethical or lucky.
But, I imagine that when you eventually sell, the increase in value will more than cover any lost income via rent, repairs, taxes, etc… -
Kate
@Jack, you’ve always sounded like a decent guy and I’m sorry it hasn’t worked out for you, but as a tenant I have to say that we can’t expect tenants to volunteer to double their rent. Salaries have not doubled over the last few years, generally speaking, even if the cost of other things has doubled or more.
It’s a pity it’s the small landlords who have to hold this line against inflation while condo developers laugh all the way to the bank.
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Jack
Your right I am just whining, but it makes me wonder is one of the roles of the landlord here to provide subsidized housing, to a couple that earn more than I do?
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Kate
You could invest in making them leave, renovate the flat and put it up for rent at a much higher rate. Or subdivide the building and sell the flats off as condos?
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Martin
What is a “market price”? Is it the rent price one sees in the classified? If that is the answer then it is flawed, since these prices are just a very tiny portion of the actual rents that are paid. More plausible for a “market” price is the median price in the neighbourhood. In Montreal, the median rent price is 615$ if my memory serves well, for a flat between a 3 1/2 and a 4 1/2. This seems right, in the mathematical sense. But landlords who wish to make a bigger profit with their flats will not agree. Thus, the “market” price argument is really about making a bigger profit.
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TiGuy
@Martin: Prix du marché (market price) = prix résultant de la confrontation de l’offre et de la demande pour un bien déterminé. Il est aberrant qu’un propriétaire tel Jack doive subventionner ses locataires. Seul le marché devrait déterminer le prix d’un loyer, et non une agence gouvernementale.
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ant6n
@TriGuy
Markets exist within rules. Rules in Quebec are that rents cannot be increased arbitrarily. So the market rent value of an apartment that is not currently occupied is different than the market value of a rented apartment, because you can’t just change the terms of the lease. You can’t just ignore the existence of that contract and when it was made – that’s a bit like complaining 5 years after selling a house that now the price would’ve been much more, and demanding the difference. -
TiGuy
ant6n : un bail a typiquement une durée d’un an. Il peut être renouvelé tacitement mais la Régie empêche au propriétaire de négocier une augmentation du loyer qui pourrait être supportée par le marché. Pire, même si un propriétaire réussi à se débarrasser d’un locataire qu’il subventionne depuis des années, la Régie dicte au propriétaire le montant maximal du loyer pour le logement en question pour le prochain locataire. En lisant tes commentaires, j’ai souvent l’impression que tu aimes intervenir sans trop savoir de quoi tu parles.
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Martin
@tiguy, c’est toi qui dit n’importe quoi. Le calcul de la Régie se fonde sur le marché, justement, au sens où il tient compte de l’inflation, des réparations et rénovations, des taxes et assurances et en plus d’un profit normal. Mais quand tu parles du marché, tu cherches à nous induire en erreur en parlant des loyers les plus faramineux dans les annonces classées. Tu cherches à lier le marché à la spéculation, qui appauvrit tout le monde qui n’est pas en haut de la pyramide. Mais le marché ce n’est pas ça. Aucune théorie du marché n’accepterait une telle définition. Mais comme les autres trolls sur ce blog qui deviennent de plus en plus nombreux, tu vas continuer à nous induire en erreur et tenter de masquer tes tactiques avec des attaques ad hominem et des insultes gratuites. Kate, you have to do something about quality control of your blog!
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TiGuy
@Martin : pour toi le contrôle de la qualité signifie le fait d’empêcher que l’on fasse valoir un point de vue qui déroge ou qui ne soit pas parfaitement conforme au tiens.
Je n’aborderai pas le fond de tes élucubrations, mais je vais tout simplement faire remarquer aux lecteurs que ta stratégie déplorable d’avilir les gens qui ne sont pas d’accord avec toi (en les traitant de trolls ou autres) n’a pas sa place dans un discours civilisé. Fais un homme de toi, s’il vous plaît.
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Thursday morning, police are swooping down in raids on households they feel may be connected with student strike actions like the metro smoke bombs and vandalism as well as more nebulous charges like conspiracy and wearing a disguise.
The La Presse piece says Amir Khadir’s daughter Yalda has been arrested, but CBC said at 8:30 that while her home is being searched, she had not yet been arrested or charged.
There’s a report this morning that Wednesday night’s demo was more substantial than was indicated last night, and that solidarity demos were held in other cities in support.
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Hamza
pic.twitter.com/KM4m5DUV
We just hit a new low for this government, this province, this country.
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Kate
Yup. Not great. I wonder who ordained the crackdown just as GP weekend and the festival season begins.
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paul
Hopefully our other leaders can channel MLK and Gandhi just as Mr. Khadir has:
http://journalmetro.com/dossiers/conflit-etudiant/86031/amir-khadir-dit-agir-comme-martin-luther-king/Between comparing themselves to recent Arab revolutions against murderous dictators, fighting for civil rights for African Americans and opposing the British colonial government – I am not surprised that the students have been unable to compromise.
Che Guervara t-shirts must be in high demand these days…
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Marc
It’s high time to expand Godwin’s rule. Anyone who likens themself to King, Mandela, the Dalai Lama, or Gahdhi automatically loses their credibility. Glorifying yourself in this manner is no different than calling your opponent or someone you disagree with Hitler or Nazis.
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Kate
This is all red herrings. We’re all learning that democracy is a very elusive thing, and it can be taken away from white affluent people just as it can be taken away from poor brown ones. In fact, us white affluent folks are more gullible in some ways. We’re prone to thinking we have rights and it’s all settled, and are learning we don’t and it never will be.
Because other people in other parts of the world had a harder struggle does not invalidate the troubles we’re having here. I can’t say that often or strongly enough.
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Ephraim
Khadir isn’t someone to hold up and revere, he’s someone to point to and show our children what intolerance is all about.
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Hamza
After this raid, I’m not even slightly ashamed to mention Vladimir Putin (who by the by, just announced a 150x increase in fines for protestors…) , Bull O’Connor, Li Peng and Jean Charest in the same sentence.
You realise Marc & paul & Ephraim (and bill too soonenough) that had there been comment boxes on blogs for India/Alabama etc, you guys would have been spewing the same vitriol in support of authourity back then too?
Correct me if I’ve overlooked your long histories of civil rights and human rights advocacy.
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C_Erb
Maybe something is lost in translation but I don’t think Khadir is comparing himself directly to MLK and Gandhi but is comparing his and other Quebecers’ tactics of civil disobedience to those of those two high profile people who were fighting for civil rights and independence respectively. I think the comparison is more-or-less apt, the three (MLK, Gandhi, Khadir) were leaders of sorts of certain subsections of their particular movements and all three were arrested at some point for their activities. The level of oppression directed at Khadir and other high profile members of this current social movement has been low so far, but it’s only been going on for 4 months. I doubt MLK and Gandhi were arrested a mere 4 months into their years-long struggles.
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Marc
@ Hamza: Your comment is a straw man and you know it. Good day to you, sir.
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steph
If anyone wants to join me on Saturday morning & afternoon, I’ll be taking advantage of my bus pass and riding the metro back and forth from Berri to Jean Drapeau. It feels a little futile now that democracy has turned into a war cry for the elite ‘but you elected us’!
The media hyperbole to discredit anything in opposition to the status quo is getting tiresome. We know they’re owned by rich people who back the PLQ. I don’ t expect them to change their tune any time soon. The economic unrest in Europe and USA should be enough to explain tourism being down (psst, tourism has been declining since our dollar hit parity). How simple do they expect people to be? It’s insulting.
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Ephraim
@Hamza you have NO idea what you are talking about. Khadir is reprehensible. He frequently has shown that he is discriminatory, not just in the case of shoe stores, but in many of his comments. No one has a right to spew hate… you don’t get a pass simply because you are from a minority and you got elected. In fact, that is when you should be the most careful.
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marco
@steph
No thanks. I’ve got better things to do with my Saturday. Have fun with that though. -
Kate
Ephraim: I appreciate your restraint in expressing your feelings about Khadir’s gestures against Israel. You are correct in your assumption that it wouldn’t do much good to bring up the whole Middle East issue on this blog.
Regardless, I’m glad we have an Amir Khadir in Quebec, a legitimately elected shit-disturber who is neither a Liberal nor an old-skool Péquiste. His presence freshens up a lot of debates, and the man has guts whatever you think of his opinions.
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ant6n
…on the other hand, the vandalism at some protests was real. And arrests related to the metro “bombing” may lead to charges of conspiracy to engage in mischief or something, are basically real as well. Is it too naive to hope that they arrested people in those raids who were actually engaged in criminal activities? Or is it more likely we live in some sort of dystopia (it all sounds real bad…)? (I’m not trying to be rethorical here)
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Hamza
Oh Israel. That third rail for Canadian politicians. And American politicians, British politicians, Europeans… Nevermind that though.
All you ‘down with Khadir’ ppl conviently sidestepped the fact that the story today is about Khadir’s DAUGHTER being arrested handcuffed and questioned without charges.
Khadir’s unjust arrest was last week folks.
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Ephraim
@Kate – Actually, it wasn’t about Israel (a country, where he fully has a right to say what he wants – and I will fight for his right to do so.) But when he specifically made comments that violated our charter against one particular group and violated our hate laws, that’s something else entirely.
That being said, no problem with shit-disturbers. I’ve been known to do it myself (though not in the same way) but stand up for what’s right. When you are part of a minority, any minority, you should be especially careful… as anyone who has read Martin Niemöller’s poem should know.
I don’t see any of this really trying to quell the demos at all, just those who don’t seem to know the limits on democracy and think that metros, political offices, public and private property are acceptable targets. They aren’t. 100% in favour of free and public demos…. 100% against intimidation, assault, battery and damaging property. (And frankly, I don’t care who does it, police or students, it’s still wrong.)
@Hamza – I don’t feed trolls.
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qatzelok
While Amir questions the legitimacy of Israel, Mulcair calls the oil sands “dirty.” Don’t these two understand who puts leaders into office? Don’t they want to win?
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paul
I doubt that the police executed these raids unless they had some solid evidence. If they are guilty of the accusations, I hope that they are shown the same level of respect that they have demonstrated towards the general public.
In regards to Mr. Khadir and his lofty comparisons; for sure there are similarities – all three were arrested (Amir 2 days ago – not last week) in fighting for a cause. I’m sure they shared many other similarities, such as sleeping and eating (Gandhi not so much).
The point is that these statements, and these regular comparisons, lack significant perspective. I agree that just ‘Because other people in other parts of the world had a harder struggle does not invalidate the troubles we’re having here’ – but it is completely ridiculous to compare the fight for basic human rights for a marginalized and persecuted population with a few hundred dollars (which is relatively easy to obtain in our culture).
When we start getting international condemnation and sanctions for our ‘oppressive tactics’, then you might have a case…but as of right now the majority of eyes outside Quebec sees this as a group of entitled petulant brats.
@steph – Anecdotal evidence, I personally know of 8 people who have cancelled their trips to Quebec this summer due to the uncertain environment (influenced highly by the media, but originated by the students) – so it will definitely have an impact in addition to other external factors.
@qatzelok – are you suggesting that Jews and Albertans/Conservatives run the show??
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C_Erb
No sanctions from the international community but the UN has been showing concern (it’s interesting that I had trouble finding any mention of this from Canadian sources but plenty from international publications).
“Amnesty International says the law breaches Canada’s international human rights obligations and has called on Quebec’s legislature to rescind it. On Wednesday two United Nations special rapporteurs expressed concern about the law and ‘urged federal and provincial governments of Canada and Quebec to fully respect the rights to freedom of peaceful assembly, expression and association of students affected by two new legislations’.” (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/01/quebec-walks-out-student-talks)
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marco
in 1993, the United Nations Human Rights Committee ruled that Quebec’s sign laws broke an international covenant on civil and political rights. “A State may choose one or more official languages,” the committee wrote, “but it may not exclude outside the spheres of public life, the freedom to express oneself in a certain language.”
– CBC “Speaking out: Quebec’s debate over language laws”We all know where that went.
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qatzelok
@ Steph: “I personally know of 8 people who have cancelled their trips to Quebec this summer due to the uncertain environment (influenced highly by the media, but originated by the students)”
The Brockville Orangeman’s Association cancelled their convention?
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qatzelok
last comment should read ‘@ paul’
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paul
Not quite sure how that comment is meant to insult?
My friends are British protestants from the early 1800s?? -
Hamza
‘Khadir Daughter Arrested’ = trolling. Boy Ephraim , those ineffective protestors should really be careful what with with their political opinions and alll. They’re starting to annoy you.
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walkerp
“I doubt that the police executed these raids unless they had some solid evidence. ”
LOL, another good one! Lots of great humour in the comments these last couple of days, people!
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Marc
@ walkerp: In order to arrest someone, you need evidence. End of story. If you believe the police are arresting people at random, it’s up to you to furnish the evidence to that effect.
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walkerp
Stop it, you’re killing me here! Too funny! This is great, you guys should take this show on the road.
[Here's one example: take a look at the Robert Dziekanski case, although admittedly instead of arresting the guy, they just tazed him to death and yes there was evidence and the police simply stole it. But yeah keep going on in your happy law and order world where the police are working for the betterment of society rather than enforcing the rule of an elite through violence.]
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Marc
@ walkerp: Whatever. Have fun living in your bubble.
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Alex L
Étrange hasard que ces arrestations la veille de la fin de semaine du Grand Prix.
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marco 22:53 on 2012/06/07 Permalink
I happen to agree with him.
qatzelok 22:58 on 2012/06/07 Permalink
“Villeneuve said he was raised to believe in hard work, and not imagine money will fall from the sky.”
He was raised in Monaco racing cars around in circles. Sounds pretty hard, and very, very important. I wonder what this shining beacon of wisdom will speak of next.
steph 23:31 on 2012/06/07 Permalink
jack should should come back to perform at the Jazzfest, that’ll keep the students away for certain.
Not mtl news but staff at l’École Nationale de Police du Québec in Nocolet have voted to go on an general unlimited strike. They plan on forming a picket line atf the school tomorrow. http://leglobe.ca/blog/2012/06/greve-generale-illimitee-du-personnel-de-lecole-nationale-de-police-du-quebec/
Kate 23:35 on 2012/06/07 Permalink
Yes @marco, that’s exactly why that statement was just grandstanding on Villeneuve’s part: it hardens the division that already exists between people who think the students are spoiled brats, and those who do not.
marco 23:36 on 2012/06/07 Permalink
I agree. There was no shortage of grandstanding tonight.
Bill Binns 06:51 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
I like his “rebels without a cause” label. Maybe we just need to tweak it to “Rebels with a different cause every week”. This week the protests are against rich people having fun. By all means, let’s drive all the rich people out of the city. They are clearly the ones who are eating up all the tax money that should be given to students.
Play-can-nets 07:45 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
Really? How are the rich people eating up all the tax money that should be given to students? When stating a mindless claim like that, please provide factual backing. Drive the rich people out of town? That’s a nice rosy idea. Everyone will be equal now (sarcasm btw). Did u know that a person who makes 400,000$ a year in salary will pay close to 180,000$ a year in taxes living in Quebec? How much do u contribute to our system? And those people making that money will likely send their kids to private schools, have semi private health care, spend more money than most individuals therefore pay more sales tax, own more expensive property therefore pay more property tax, etc. How are they using up all the students taxes then? By taking advantage of the public system? How many students do u see walking around with 550$ Canada goose jackets, own over 20 pair of shoes, play with their iPhones and iPads during classes, do their homework on their MacBook pros, drive around in cars they can barely afford on their part time salary instead of taking public transport, live in apartments because they want their freedom? Maybe they should realign their priorities if school is that important? Maybe students should foot the bill along with everyone else who has. Did u know that many students initially voted for a strike cuz they didn’t want to go to cLass? Seemed like a real big joke to them at first. Why is it that business, engineering, health and science students are not in strike? For crying out loud, intro to economics people. It’s called inflation. Doubling the cost of something already really cheap still makes it cheap. But now thanks to all u clowns, ur political endeavors will cost this city and the people who are actually paying taxes a lot more. U think the police force deployed in triple overtime every night is free? U think all the judges and court rooms used to give stupid fines are free? Guess we’ll find out when all of our city bills double. And on a final note, negotiating involves that both sides makes compromises. But the students have clearly said that they won’t tolerate any tuition hike at all… Nice.
Gabriel Teller 07:51 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
Biography
“acques Villeneuve passe son adolescence au Collège alpin Beau Soleil de Villars-sur-Ollon en Suisse où il fait la connaissance de Craig Pollock, un Écossais professeur d’éducation physique et de ski, qu’il retrouvera par hasard quelques années plus tard au Japon et qui deviendra son manager et ami.”
I’m sure M. Villeneuve had a lot of trouble paying his way through school in Québec.
qatzelok 07:54 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
But Bill, if we drive out all the rich people, who will be left to skim money from everyone else? Who will have the resources to strip-mine the environment, and to buy the political will to let it happen? Who will be left to exploit everyone else and everything that can’t defend itself? Who will pay for callously destructive circuses like the F-1?
paul 08:02 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
Not like it is representative of all protesters, but the interview with one made me laugh last night:
“It is not fair that they can afford to pay $1000 for a dinner and others have problems buying diapers”
@qatzelok – if you drive out all the rich people, you also drive out their companies, and their jobs, and everyone’s livelihood – then we’re all left around wondering who to protest against.
Play-can-nets 08:06 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
So I guess u think that ur car, ur house, ur apartment, ur BBQ, ur kitchen utensils, ur bathtub, ur shoes, they all drop out of the sky right? The resources are just conjured magically, without actually having to go and extract. Unless u live in a shack and feed off squirrels and insects, and brush ur teeth with ur fingers and wipe ur butt with leaves. Easy to point the finder at the big bad corporations. I guess u’re not familiar with electricity and are not using some piece of technology to post ur comment too.
mtl 08:07 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
Villeneuve’s comments reminded me of similar pleas made by non-separatists Montrealers in the 1970s. The message is essentially the same, i.e. “We’ve built something great here. Please don’t let your own small-minded interests destroy this city.”
Bill Binns 08:11 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
I wonder who the babies think they are going to work for when they emerge from the UQAM womb with their brand new bargain priced diplomas in a few years. Rich people are evil, corporations are evil, the government is evil, banks are evil, what’s left? Collective farming? Even that would put you in league with those nasty banks and the international petro-cabal. They better figure it out soon because they have to get to work and pay taxes so they can pay for the education of the students that are behind them.
qatzelok 08:58 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
paul, in Argentina, after all the capitalist predators left, the people took over the companies and now run them as cooperatives. Tell me, why do you think we need a “nanny corporate state?”
paul 09:14 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
From Wiki: As of 2005, there were roughly 200 worker-owned businesses in Argentina, most of which were started in response to this crisis.
So there are 200 worker cooperatives for a country of 40M…
I guess everyone else in Argentina works for the state?
At that rate, we just need to start 40 cooperatives here and we will be a beacon for prosperity. Let me know when you come back to reality.
Bill Binns 09:20 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
Also from Wikipedia’s Argentina page: “Officially hovering around 9% since 2006, inflation has been privately estimated at over 30%”
Clearly a shining example of how things could be here if only the people would rise up. I guess you just try to spend your money on the day you earn it or maybe you can ask to be paid in food.
steph 11:47 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
@paul that quote and the people who were protesting at the Gala were the CLAC. you’re right, not representative of the general student protest.
I need to ask, they gala under the guise that it’s a benefit for the two children’s hospitals – raising 500,000$ ~ 1,000,000$ – if they care about sick kids, why don’t they just give the money directly to the hospitals, including money saved for an overblown party.
TiGuy 14:30 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
Plekanec : tu n’as pas constaté le sarcasme de Bill Binns. Ce dernier se compte, comme toi, parmi les gens raisonnables de ce monde. En passant, voici un lien vers la vidéo des commentaires à M. Villeneuve qui, d’ailleurs, a parfaitement raison (n’en déplaise à nos pseudo intellos gauchistes) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRlKSvfS4as
Hamza 15:49 on 2012/06/08 Permalink
Rich people don’t actually do much. Their employees AKA the average person provide the labour and intelligence to make all those spoons and products that fulfill all of our deepest human longings. Which is why you can see how happy and tranquil everybody in our city is.
Also, the argument that rich people magically conjure up tax revenue jobs and businesses would be relevant if reality showed an upward trend in employment, wages and quality of social services *in conjunction with* the rich getting richer.
As every survey for the last XX amount of decades has shown, the opposite is true.
JaneyB 07:22 on 2012/06/09 Permalink
This idea that rich people create jobs is quite a leap. Rich people get rich by using other peoples’ labour to their private advantage and poor people allow this because they are under various constraints (lack of mobility, capital, time etc). Rich people mostly avoid hiring at all – hence the growth in financial products as an ‘industry’. Moreover in Quebec, many of these large companies get truly massive (eg 40% of salary) public subsidies eg: Ubisoft or energy discount subsidies (Rio Tinto/Alcan) etc.
As for the idea that rich people will take their money out of unstable jurisdictions, that might be true but they wouldn’t be able to sell their stuff back to those unstable citizen/consumers if we had more tariffs on foreign-made goods. The free trade model is a political choice that is intended to disciplines workers as well as allowing big companies to exploit wage and currency differences between countries.
And lastly, only a part of the labour force works for big companies; close to 64% of Canadian workers are in small to medium size businesses.
I am really really tired of hearing the ‘shhh….the baby (multinational corporation)’s sleeping’ rationale for why we as a society should eagerly put all our resources and ingenuity in the service of some vast unscrupulous legal entity that proudly damages our lives and environment. This isn’t talk of revolution; it’s about restoring competition and transparency to the practise of exchange. Right now – and for the last 30 years – we are swimming in a sea of crony capitalism and opportunistic oligarchies and the market is no where in sight. Worse, that sea has breached the walls of universities and government. Enough!